I know a woman who just can’t get over the suicide of her brother. It happened several years ago. She feels guilty. Maybe because she didn’t or couldn’t do anything to stop it. I find that sad. I wish I could console her. I’ve tried. But she becomes hostile. In part, I suppose, because I told her that I overcame the suicide of my father long ago. By thinking of it as sort of a heroic act. Dad was unhappy. A habitual gambler. And in those days (it was 1949) there were no pills for depression. Anyway, dad’s absence improved the atmosphere in the household. Far less stress. More peace and harmony. As a family, we learned how to cope and not feel guilty. After all, the event happened. And no way could we change it. No need to let dad’s suicide ruin our lives.
But this woman is allowing her brother’s suicide to wreck her life. Emotionally. With overwhelming guilt. With depression. With hostility toward people like me who tell her to get over it, and get on with life. I tell her that maybe it’s best to help other survivors learn that suicide can be prevented. Almost always. If only we had better treatment and recognized the symptoms. Her brother had obvious signs. He tried suicide once before by taking an overdose of sleeping pills. And when that didn’t do the trick, he said he’d find a better way. Even told her how he’d do it. By sticking a gun in his mouth. Sure enough, he blew his head off. Came as no surprise. Really. I can imagine the sister’s horror. She was devastated. And remains so to this very day.
But I keep telling the sister, don’t let it ruin your life. Demonstrate to your brother’s spirit how one can lead a happy life despite tragic events. Fall in love. With anyone. With life. Don’t lament or anguish. There are some things one can’t change. But one can still choose to be happy.
The woman tells me she was often frustrated with her brother. Because he tended to be argumentative. He’d take issue with her and everybody over just about anything. In that way, she said, I remind her of him. We’re so similar in our make-ups. Yes, I guess I frustrate the woman. The way the brother did.
Well, I need understanding, too. Just like the brother. We all need understanding. If we get it…maybe there would be fewer suicides. --Jim Broede
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
23 comments:
Mr. Broede aside from being a male you have absolutely nothing in common with my brother. He was a sensitive, sweet, kind man who would NEVER hurt anyone. He would never have taken delight in someone else's pain.
This is the second time you have written about my brother's suicide in your "blog". I don't know what kind of a kick you get out of this but I want to tell you that the more you show your true self the more others will understand why the Alzheimer's message board falls into chaos. It is your hobby playing with people's emotions.
Now...to set the record straight.
He had never attempted before. He never made the statements you quoted. He was the center of my world and in my life every single day. He was not without someone to talk to about anything at any time.
This is the last time I will looking at your miserable attempts to bait the good people who gathered at the Alzheimer's board for comfort. I will however be sending a copy of this blatant attempt to hurt me those who are trained to deal with people like you.
Did I let his suicide ruin my life? No. I have a wonderful life and I enjoy every day of it. Even as the likes of you try so hard to make me upset.
My brother was a gift and I hold him in my heart.
I am the sister of a precious little brother who left this world too soon. Believe nothing this man writes. He seeks only to create emotional wreckage. What a sad little old man you must be.
Thank God he was nothing like you or no one would have mourned him.
jim
I can only speak from my own personal experience with suicide..both at work and at home..
I do a lot of volunteer work..helping families deal with this issue..and it helps me..to help them..
it takes a lot of my personal time..but I try to make a difference..
at work..I also help..kids..who have made attempts..that failed..and their parents..who are heartbroken..and scared..
as they feel..if at first you don't succeed...
at home..I still ask..myself why..
I was a very religious person before..but my sons death..shook me to my core..of my being
my life was never the same since that day..
I had way 100 people in our home after the funeral..I dont know how I got through that day..as part of me died too..then 2 weeks later..my husbands father died of a heart attack..
and it was so hard for my husband as his father was so upset..I am sure that it contributed to his death two weeks..after our son died..and then margie..my husbands mom..the signs were there..dementia..what do we do..
my reasons I battle within myself..as you know..I live with every day..
but you are right about the many things you said to me jim...and for me..helping others try to make sense of all..is never easy but I reach them..
I have shared our story with you..long ago..as I feel close to you..your a great human being..
so this person that you have mentioned has transferred her anger over her brothers suicide..to you..
jim..this is very sad..that as she has been so angry for so long..and now I understand..the big picture..fibromyalgia and all..it makes sense.
jim..just continue being your kind gentle self..its not your issue..it is hers..
and if she wants to nail you to the cross for being a good listener..
then may she also..look in the mirror..and say..I need to forgive..myself..and jim broede..
now if she cannot do this..she is not hurting you..just herself..she may never get to that place..
I was taught as a child..what is said in private..says in private..
and when we tell others.. our personal..truth..or beliefs..and share them on a public forum..and bring...others who like me..were not there..
none of us know..only you and that person..
It was a choice she made..to tell many others.
we cannot change history..but we do have the choice..to forgive and move on..
may this happen for Deborah uetz.
and may we all help each other..as suicide..is a permanent solution..to a temporary problem..
and those of us left behind..our lives are changed forever..
may you have peace in your life..and love in your heart..
love Rosie
I too work with people effected by suicide. I have 2 grown children that have both been effected by friends suicide's. None of which asked or seeked help. Some of them witnessed by friends others alone. Many of you might know Eric Hipple former Detroit Lion. His son took his life. His son was 15 years old. Depression isn't something one asks for. In another writing Jim you praised your father for commiting suicide. How sad that you send a message like that. Your father's better choice would of been to leave the family by other means not by killing himself. Your message tells someone that if things get ruff its best to just find a rope, gun, drugs, and end it. In one's depressed mine that works well, but is it really the best choice? Most people unlike you feel the pain for their actions. They are gone they have no more pain. A better choice is to try and help people that are depressed not by sayin good vibes, think positive those people can't. Depression is real! It is serious not something someone makes up. Wouldn't it be nice if people were educated in prevention not stumble across your post that you are thankful?
Rosie i am sorry for your losses. Deb I admire you for all you have done. You seem very happy with your life. You too have gotten past it yet are able to hold him close to your heart. My children have too looked past it and i am proud to say the work to prevent it. It still hurts them but they read, learn and talk with others.
A few sites for those interested
http://www.voicenews.com/stories/112906/loc_20061129002.shtml
http://thegriefblog.com/grief/grief/real-men-do-cry-words-from-eric-hipple/
jstme
Deborah:
I am sure you brother was kind and sweet. And please remember that we had an exchange of emails some time ago. In which you gave me details of the suicide. And you mentioned he had one unsuccessful attempt. With sleeping pills. We were on better terms in those days. You wrote to me that you had wished you had visited Keith in Tucson. You told me that I reminded you of him. That he was argumentative. That if you said the sky was blue, he'd say it was blue green. And thatr this frustrated you. It's all here in our correspondence. And you have on occasion accused me of revealing our private correspondence. But it is you that did it first. On the Alzheimer's message boards. And then I followed up with information to set the record straight. Deborah, I am not out to hurt you. I told you how I coped with my father's suicide. Honestly. Truthfully. Survivors do it in different ways. Anyway, I wish you wouldn't become hostile. If you want, I'll refresh your memory from what you wrote to me in the past. I think you were being rather graphic and honest at that time. I like that. No reason for you to go into denial now. --Jim Broede
jstme:
I wouldn't necessarily say I praised or glorified my father's suicide. It's more like I was giving my father any benefit of the doubt. I didn't want his spirit to feel bad about the suicide. I wanted him to understand that we all learned to cope with it. We got on with our lives. And lived reasonably happy lives. In some ways, the suicide was a catalyst for good things that happened in our lives. Such as my mother's subsequent happy marriage. And I wanted dad to understand that I was grateful for him for giving me life. Giving me the opportunity to be happy. To be an alive and conscious being. I wanted dad to see that there was a positive side to his suicide. It wasn't all bad. I wanted dad to read my letter to him on the 50th anniversary of his suicide, and for him to feel good about himself. And I wanted him to know that I feel good about him, and that in some ways he's my hero. Afterall, he did give me life. I think dad understands that I love him. Unconditionally. --Jim Broede
your quotes
tell myself, dad, that maybe it was a heroic act. You were a habitual gambler. Unhappy. With life in general. There was strife and conflict between you and mother. It was really a marriage of convenience, wasn’t it? Let’s be honest. Not a marriage nurtured by love.
You see "heroic act" Again I will repeat Suicide isn't to be glorifed.
Maybe this sounds a little harsh, dad, but in a way you did us a favor by cashing in your chips when you did. In that sense, I’m able to look at you today as my hero.
Again, he did you a favor? Do you ever stop to think that talk like that a depressed person could think, wow I would do them a favor by as you put it cashing in the chips. Calling him a hero for taking his own life.
Even way back when there were other choices one could of made.
I could say mean and cruel things in your fathers behalf but that is not me. I do love life, I do take what it throws me and make the best of it. I don't want to hurt anyone with words or actions
I like to level with the spirits. Whether it be with god. Or with Jeanne. Or with my dad. And when I address my dad's spirit, I don't criticize or catigate him for his suicide. He made a choice. His choice. Did he do the wrong thing? Or the right thing? I don't know. That's for him to decide. Maybe he's residing in a spirit world, and maybe he's happy there. Then it was a good choice. Maybe the right choice. Maybe in this earthly life he was miserable and unhappy, and he wanted a change. Maybe he wanted nothingness. Obliteration. No consciousness. Or maybe he believed in a spirit world, and that's where he wanted to go. To get closer to god. So many possibilities. Maybe dad thought suicide was his route to happiness. He was a gambler. Willing to take chances. Well, maybe he was betting on the existence of a spiritual realm. Maybe he took the ultimate gamble. Maybe he really believed he would finally become the big winner. Maybe at this very moment he's in Nirvana. In paradise. And happy to be there. Joyful. And maybe he's looking down on some of us, wondering why we create little hells. Hating each other. Rather than loving each other. Maybe dad is looking down at all the religious strife and the discord and the senseless wars. And he's feeling blessed. For arriving in the spirit world ahead of his time. If that's the case, maybe dad is smarter than the rest of us. And happier. --Jim Broede
Deborah:
I think my dad and your beloved brother Keith may be smarter and happier at this moment than you. I dare say that I think they are pleased with their decisions. Because they are in a spirit world and permeated by an overwhelming feeling of love. --Jim Broede
In response to Anonymous signed as just me who said: "A better choice is to try and help people that are depressed not by sayin good vibes, think positive those people can't."
A few years back I was depressed and contemplating suicide. Contacted Jim.
He never uttered words good vibes. He shared some positive thoughts, listened, and gave up hours of his time over the period of several days.
Sometimes I thought that his aim was to keep me occupied until I began pulling out of my slump.
It worked.
You are right talking openly does help with suicide thoughts. Most people with those thoughts don't want to die they just want to stop hurting. It has been noted by survivors that even during the act of attempting suicide, there are feelings of ambivalence. While there is a sincere wish to end their pain . . . there is also a longing for an alternative to suicide. If thats what Jim did for you thats great.
My problem is that Jim was calling his dad a hero for hanging himself. Think back if you were told you would be a hero if you cashed in your chips. Everyone would be better off if you did. They would thank you for leaving them. Would that of helped?
Please understand, jstme, that I consider my dad a hero for many, many reasons. Not the least being that he dared to marry mom in a time of her need. Albeit, quite possibly, a marriage of convenience more than one of pure love. And he's a hero just for the fact that he gave me life. Without him, I wouldn't be here today. Living a relatively joyful and happy life. Dad decided for himself when to leave this Earthly domain. For whatever reason. And more than a half century later in Earth time, I'm telling dad I honor and respect and love him in an unconditional way. I say good for you, dad, you got through 38 years of Earthly life, and like all of us, you did some nice things and maybe some not-so-nice things, too. But whatever, despite any flaws you may have had, your son Jim still finds reason to give you hero status. You don't have to be perfect, dad, to be loved. Yes, I think that's one way for me to reconcile dad's act of suicide. He's still my dad. Still my hero. --Jim Broede
I think we're getting some good discussion here, folks. That tends to happen when we set our anger aside and start listening to each other. --Jim Broede
That statement that your father is a hero to you for giving you life is one thing but you state that he was a hero for cashing in the chips and making life better for you in doing so. That I don't and will not agree with sorry. I am more into prevention.
jstme:
I'm for prevention and forgiveness. A whole gamut of things. I'm also for accepting things we cannot change. And for coming to reconciliations. I'm for savoring life. For happiness. And for freedom. Freedom of choice. I'm for tolerance. I'm for freedom of expression, especially for expression of ideas. Thoughts. And I'm for love. And I'm opposed to hate. And I'm for kindness. And honesty. And understanding. And I'm for dialogue. And I'm for pondering and meditation and even for brooding. The way I brood. But I'll accept other people's ways, too. --Jim
Another thought, jstme. It'd be nice if we could prevent all suicides. But it ain't gonna happen. So, when somebody close to us does the act, I'm for accepting it. For not letting it ruin our lives. I'm for forgiveness. I'm even for conceding that maybe in some instances it was for the best. For the best of everyone. For the perpetrator. For the survivors. Life is a choice. And some choose not to live. I'm not necessarily gonna judge them for making the wrong decision. To them, maybe it was the right decision. Sometimes right and wrong lands in a gray area. In a sense, I think some martyrs actually have consciously committed suicide. They choose to die for a cause. Is that wrong? Is that suicide? Certainly could be construed as such. And it isn't outlandish to consider some martyrs heroes. Where do we draw the line between a justified and an unjustfied suicide? --Jim
Jim, I have no regrets. I have accpeted the fact that my children's lives where torn about so many times. I use it in a positive manner and try to help preventing others from sadly leaving this world. This in no way has ruined my life. I do not judge them. Your right it was their choice. Was it the right choice who knows. Not you or I. But if I can prevent someone from doing it that makes me feel much better. The professionals state that "noted by survivors that even during the act of attempting suicide, there are feelings of ambivalence. While there is a sincere wish to end their pain . . . there is also a longing for an alternative to suicide."
Will suicides end? No, there will always be there but so much better feeling when one can be prevented.
For the better part of two days I have been thinking about you and the things you felt compelled to write about me. For nearly every moment of those two days I hated you, perhaps for the first time in my life I felt hatred. It did not feel good.
I have a glorious life and I thank God for every blessing I have had.
Today I have found my feet again and I have this to say to you Mr. Broede...I wish you peace. I will pray for you every night and hope that you will know that even if you don't believe in God he believes in you.
Now the sky can be blue and the grass sweet green and none of it is colored by my thoughts of your writings. We are both children and God and so my friend, I wish you peace.
That truly is all I have to say about this because my life is busting with grandchildren's smiles, a man who has loved me like I never dreamed anyone could for 40 years and I have so much left to do. Praise Jesus for the gift of blessed assurance.
Blessings to you Jim, be gentle with people...they are breakable.
Deb
"Jim Broede"
Where do you get all this? I have just read this entire exchange, including the previous entry, which aparently did not elicit the responses you were looking for. I see no anger from this woman, towards her brother, only towards you, for exploiting her experience.
I see no horboring of anger, guilt, depression, or any of these feelings you mention, except toward you(deservedly). I'm afraid these contributors seem to understand you too well!
This "...." person seems to either be a relative, consort, or you, yourself, completely distorting what "Deb" has written. If it is indeed yourself, shame on you for providing an avenue for anonymous replies, then "naming names". If this person works around/with survivors of, and those affected by suicide, shame on her, for being so callus in her treatment of "Deb". Especially, since she has aparently has first-hand experience! I would never wish to receive whatever it is she provides to those people. I cannot fathom what qualifies a person with this type of response, to...what...counsel???
It is also hard to believe, if these ARE two different people, that the "...." one actually supports the writings of "Jim Broede"!
I came upon this site, while researching suicide. These views are quite surprising, and somewhat disturbing. Also, aparently when this "Deborah" accused you of revealing private correspondence, she must have been correct, as you have, once again, revealed it here.
I always understood "blogs" were personal to the writer about their own life, their own family, "friends" and their own experiences.
It saddens me that this particular "blog" is being used as a vessel to bring other people's lives, most of whom he has never met, but has crossed paths with on the Alzheimer forum, and is using this to continue the saga started there.
Shame on you Mr Broede, Shame on you.
It is also sad, that this is being advertised on the Alzheimer's Forum as an "oh yes,"(afterthought)"...will have Alzheimer-related connections".
I am glad, though, that you finally acted on Mama'a Friend's" suggestion, to start your own blog!
Just think...about Jim, around Jim, including Jim, starring Jim, AND we ALL know just about what we are in for!!
I think this blog is accomplishing what it set out to do. To encourage all of us to think. And to be expressive. And honest with each other. I think that those of you who are stimulated by all this will keep returning. Those who aren't, won't. I like that. To each his/her own. Nobody is required to come here. We do it voluntarily. Just as it should be. Thanks for your participation. You are pumping life into this blog. --Jim
Jim—Wanted to stop by and say hello. Don’t know if this is a breach of ‘blog etiquette’ but I would like to say....
Your views on your father’s suicide neither surprise nor disturb me. You were given the choice of making the best of the hand that was dealt you or spending the rest of your life feeling bad about an event that you had not control of. Entering the labor force at such a young age (13, I think)...Could not have been fun. You survived.
Time is a great healer. Your ability to accept and put a positive spin on unpleasant things that cannot be changed and not waste effort moaning and groaning over them is admirable.
For what it is worth...If there is a spirit world, I suspect that you father would be pleased to know that you think of him kindly and be proud of your ability to see things through to their natural ending.
The anonymous (08/09...05:04 PM) contributor must think that there is a ready market for the Brooklyn Bridge. That anyone would find your blog while doing research on suicide seems a bit far fetched to me and sounds like something that I’ve encountered before. Come to think of it...The “hard to believe, if these ARE two different people” also sounds like something I’ve read before. ---Cherie
Thank you, Cherie, for your positive comments. You are setting a fine example for others. You are very nice. --Jim
Post a Comment